Fred Menachem (00:01)
Welcome to the Engage and Secure podcast brought to you by Outthink. I'm of course your host, Fred Menachem, and today's guest isn't just a leader. He's a fighter in every sense of the word. And I have to say personally, he's someone that I've learned to deeply admire and really not just for his accomplishments, but most importantly for his character. Meet Flavius Plesu, the founder and CEO of Outthink. Flavius has dedicated over two decades to the field of cybersecurity.

including serving as the Chief Information Security Officer at the Bank of Ireland. In 2019, he founded Outthink and Outthink is the world's first AI native cybersecurity human risk management platform. Outthink empowers organizations to proactively prevent human initiated security incidents by transforming human vulnerabilities into proactive defense mechanisms. So what sets Flavius apart is it's not just his impressive resume.

Truly it's his philosophy, whether it's in the kickboxing ring or the boardroom, Flavius deeply believes that if you're going to do something, do it with everything you've got. Frankly, he's not driven by money or recognition. He's truly driven by the belief that excellence and impact go hand in hand. He often says that in kickboxing, the only way to win is to learn how to take a hit. You get back up and you keep going.

and he's carried that mindset into every aspect of his life. For Flavius, every challenge, whether it's a cyber thread or it's a sparring opponent or arguing with his wife, is an opportunity to learn, to grow, and to come back stronger. Now, growing up in communist Romania taught Flavius the value of resilience and resourcefulness, qualities he now applies to solving some of the world's most complex and pressing challenges. Under his leadership, Outthink has become a trusted partner for organizations worldwide.

revolutionizing how they address cybersecurity. But what truly sets him apart, at least in my mind, is his deep understanding of human behavior and his drive to use that knowledge to create meaningful solutions. For Flavius, cybersecurity is not just about stopping threats. It's about empowering people to make smarter and safer decisions every day. And while Flavius is making waves in this industry, his vision extends far beyond that.

He's driven by desire to leave the world better than he found it, whether it's by solving global challenges like hunger and poverty or by inspiring others to embrace resilience and innovation. From growing up in communist Romania to leading a global cybersecurity revolution, Flavius proves that true success isn't just about fighting, but most importantly, it's about what you're fighting for. Flavius, it's an honor to join you and it's an honor to be hosting the series. How you doing, brother?

Flavius Plesu (02:53)
Fred, thank you for such a warm introduction. I'm thrilled to be here today and I'm excited for the conversation. And yeah, it's been quite a journey. So I'm looking forward to sharing some insights and some stories with our audience today. So let's get started.

Fred Menachem (03:09)
I'm excited. listen, you know, I'm going to start out really like talking about, know, you got some exciting things going on in your life right now. And I think, you know, you're talking about, man, look at that smile. I know we were just talking about it. I know why you're beaming. You got something happening in March, right? Well, what's going on, man?

Flavius Plesu (03:24)
Yeah, absolutely. We're having a baby. So my wife's now eight months in, much left to go. And that's exciting. Obviously, you know, I'm a founder, so I'm a bit anxious to see how we're going to cope with this. But I've been speaking with other founders and VCs and getting a bit of advice. Apparently, it's going to give me even a bit of extra motivation and drive.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing. I'm not sure that I need anything extra on top of what I have already, but yeah, we're excited.

Fred Menachem (04:02)
Well, good. I'm excited for you. I'm excited for you. And I see though, I see that smile and that's why I brought it up before we even got started on anything else because look in our lives and you you talk about one thing people are going to learn about you. Number one is about your wife and how she grounds you. And I think that, you know, all of us be fortunate to have somebody in our, in our life like that. And, and just watching the pride that you have about what really matters most in life. And it's our family and the impact on this world. And, and we're going to get into that. So on that note,

Flavius Plesu (04:04)
Thanks, Fred.

Fred Menachem (04:31)
I kinda wanna start out, look, people don't really know you, you know, and you're guy that really doesn't like to be, you you stay under the radar, you you're very proud of the work that you do, but I mean, the world needs to know you, Like, I've had the honor to get to know you a bit, and you have such a fascinating story. you let's talk a little bit about your early influences, because, you you grew up as a kid in communist Romania, so talk about it.

You know, obviously, what was that like growing up in that environment?

Flavius Plesu (05:03)
Yeah, Fred. Well, I'm born in 1982. We had a fall of communism in Romania. Well, actually Eastern Europe, everything east of Berlin in 89, 90s. so, yeah, my first eight years I grew on the communism. I do remember those times, very, very different. I remember my parents had to get up really early, like 3, 4 a.m. There were ration lines for basic things, for bread, for milk.

Now, fortunately, my parents had good jobs. They worked in the military. So it was good, but quite strange. We had television. think it was about just the news in the evening. think an hour and a half a day, that was it. There was only one station. was a lot of right. It was an hour a half in the evening then. And those were the state news. But.

And that was pretty much it. You wouldn't leave the country. Everything was sort of censored. The books you'd read. We had the sort of intelligence services in the country. We had the Communist Party. People were... There was this overruling anxiety. People were very careful with what they would say and who they would speak with. So that was quite interesting. Different times, certainly.

Fred Menachem (06:30)
So my understanding is that, you know, your parents were like every parent, you know, role models, you, you to learn good, you learn bad, but, but, you know, your father was very educated. You know, they taught you, you know, a lot of things you learned. I believe you learned different lessons from both of your, from both of your parents. So tell us about that.

Flavius Plesu (06:51)
Yeah, I guess I was lucky. Both my parents were well educated. They went to uni. My dad was actually, he did a PhD in National Defense. Good parents, they looked after us. I guess what I learned from my mom was empathy. I do remember, you know, she would always go, hey, just be good, be nice to people. And then my dad...

My dad was hyper competitive. was an athlete. He won nationals running football. Lots of sports. I remember he took me out on the stadium when I was three years old or something like that. He was expecting me to kick the ball and be good at it. wasn't needless to say. But yeah, super competitive.

He took one of the worst performing departments in the military and turned that around and made that an example for the rest of the military, know, the best in the country. So, yeah, I guess that's what I learned from my dad. If you do something, just do it right and be the best. That was good.

Fred Menachem (08:10)
loving parents, they were loving, right? You're talking about it.

Flavius Plesu (08:12)
Yeah,

yeah. My dad certainly wasn't. And people have this idea, know, military. He retired as a general. So in communist Romania and Eastern Europe, I don't know, people might have a certain image in their heads. But no, my dad was super loving and he would play a lot with us as kids. Got me reading a lot, age. I'm sure that must have had an influence. So all good on the front.

Fred Menachem (08:43)
So I know from conversations we've had over time as we've gotten to know each other that you had some early exposure to computers during that time period and certainly in creativity. Tell us about that and first of all, what kind of computer was it? That's really fascinating to me under communism and how did that all manifest itself?

Flavius Plesu (09:01)
Thank

Yeah, really interesting stuff. I don't even know why they did it. I mean, my dad studied law and computers weren't the big thing in Romania back then. Why did he buy me a computer? It was, think, in the in the 90s. I was probably I think I was eight years old and it was a computer made in communist Romania. It was on a keyboard and you put a tape in and you have those those sounds. It was loading.

And I think I had BASIC and FORTRAN on that computer. And it's really interesting, man, because I was eight. I knew the alphabet. I knew the letters. I was starting to learn how to read. I didn't speak English. So, and the programming languages were all in English. I had no booth on how to code. And yet I taught myself how to code.

I can't remember how I did it, but I do remember I was throwing police cars and circles and lines. So and then I didn't stop. I went to high school. did computer science. So in high school, that was sports and lots of computer science and then went to uni computer science. Got into cyber security and I'm still going. So

That's interesting how I stopped you there.

Fred Menachem (10:36)
So, so you, young kid learned about computers and it's funny too, flabby is because I'm, I hate to break it to you, but you already know I'm probably about 10, 11 years older than you. And at that age, I mean, I was God, I was in college.

I didn't have a computer. I walked around with a freaking word processor that looked like the size of a freaking dresser and I could hardly use it. So that's pretty amazing that at that early age you picked up on that, especially not speaking English. That's impressive. So you always had that interest, I guess, in not just in computers, but in learning, right? In pushing and becoming excellent in anything that you did, correct?

Flavius Plesu (11:18)
Yeah, I'm a bit of a geek. It started with computers, then maths and physics, I love the exact sciences and possibly, I guess that's why love computers. Well, it is exact. I know some science doesn't work, they break, but no, they're pretty exact. It's ones and zeros. So I love that side of things. And then I guess the education, know, Romania was just...

Pretty competitive. I remember in school, at the end of the school year, you had 30 kids in a class and then you get a prize, know, the best second, third, you get on a mini podium like that and you had to be the best. And I did an okay job. But then, you what happened was something silly.

I started just focusing on things I really cared about and started ignoring everything else. So I got into sports. I remember when I was in primary school, actually, I took the allowance my parents would give me every month and I would buy chewing gum. And then I would resell that to my classmates. And then I realized, I can buy two boxes and I can keep doing that. But then my school teacher called me and that was my first dance prize.

failed right there. And I just continued like that. There were things that really interested me, really passionate like computers. I could spend hours, 10, 12 hours, 16 hours on just one thing. And then I neglected the other subject. I started not getting that first prize at the end of the year. And I don't think my dad was very proud.

Fred Menachem (12:48)
Hahaha

Flavius Plesu (13:16)
I felt a bit guilty I remember back then as child. But I think he's feeling good about me now.

Fred Menachem (13:21)
He was.

he wasn't very proud back then. so you were, your parents were a big influence, right? Making them proud. Like that had a big impact on you back then.

Flavius Plesu (13:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, that was the thing. And I do remember this at the end of one school year, was still in primary and we were walking to school at the end of the year and I was holding my dad's hand and he wasn't looking at me much. I didn't get the first prize that year, I got second and it didn't feel great. And I guess that feeling really, really pushed me.

I didn't analyze it too much over the years. Once I got into cybersecurity, got a serious job at some point and then got into business. I didn't really spend much time thinking about it, but now in hindsight, I just think that that was a big factor. It sort of motivated me to just make my dad proud. And I know he's proud now, so I mean, you'll probably be watching this, so hi, dad.

Fred Menachem (14:26)
Hi dad, look at that. Well, look, you know, I have to tell you something that I think, look, I think we all, you know, these are the kinds of things and we'll get into this a bit later. You know, I want to kind of segue into talking about excellence, but, I think, you know, human beings, right? We, we all want to, you know, first of all, fortunate guys like you and I to have had good upbringings and parents that, you know, raised us well. But I think that making, you know, our parents proud,

I think a lot of us, you know, you know, still live in that world, no matter how old we are. I'll tell you something on a side note at my age, still, if I do anything that I feel a little bit like, man, maybe I shouldn't be doing it. Like on that side, I'm like, I still have my mother still lives in my head. My father passed away a long time. He always lives in my head too. But my mother, she still lives in my head in about 10 minutes from my, from where I live. So, you know, I think that's, you know, I think that can, right. Exactly. But that also can serve as a reminder of how we were raised, right. And the values that

Flavius Plesu (15:15)
That's good, Fred. That's good.

Fred Menachem (15:22)
and the values that were passed down to us. I think, although I wish my mother didn't always live in my head, but that's probably for therapy, Flavius. And we can have another conversation about that in a different, right? Exactly. But on that note, let's, let's, let me get back focused here. So, all of the things you're talking about, I think it's segue into excellence. And, you know, you're kind of from, I've gotten to know you and I know that you're, you know,

Flavius Plesu (15:31)
Wonderful.

Fred Menachem (15:51)
consistently focused on being the best that you can be. And I think that, obviously there's a lot of reasons for that, but tell us, you know, tell us a little bit about, know, that drive and, sort of how that manifested itself and how that played out over the years, you know, up until today.

Flavius Plesu (16:14)
I guess I have this sort of compulsive, obsessive nature. I do something and then I become obsessed with that thing. And I can think of many, many examples. The expectation from my parents was always work hard and be really good, be the best. And it started with math. I was winning contests in school. I was really good at I was really good at the things.

I cared about and obsessed with. So it was math first, computers. I got really good at that in high school. I was writing code already. I got my first job when I was 17 for local incident service provider. And that was a proud moment. I had a salary. I was still in high school and that felt good. And then basketball in high school as well. There's some good stories there around basketball.

spread, know, was a kid, was physically weak and skinny. And now I'm okay. I'm now 6'4". I think I'm 3'2", 30 pounds, think it's 2'2", 40,000 pounds. yeah, I lift heavy, I'm strong, I did my kickboxing. I'm good now, you know, but...

Fred Menachem (17:27)
Now you're charming. Now you're charming and handsome. Right. Right. All right.

Flavius Plesu (17:41)
But as a kid, remember I was, was keen. was really, really keen. I was uncoordinated. I was not good at sports. And I just told you, my dad was awesome at sports. so I just went out and I practiced a lot. I wanted to make the high school's basketball team. I didn't get drafted first year. And then I went to the coach and I said, Hey, look, just give me give me a shot. he did. He gave me the ball. Man, I was all over the place.

Fred Menachem (17:46)
you

Flavius Plesu (18:10)
all over the place and the guy started laughing and he just, would just get lost kids. And, and, and I didn't quite get lost. I just went and started practicing and, I was missing class a lot. I remember I was either with computers or out playing basketball and shooting hoops. And, and then I started getting good and I went back to the coach again and again and again. And then at some point he says, fine, fine, fine, the team, get on the bench.

And then I kept on practicing and I was practicing eight, 10 hours, 10 hours a day alone. I never got bored of that and I got good eventually. I made a team. I was the best player eventually in high school. I was the best player in uni. So that was nice. And then I keep repeating this. I'm realizing now I'm 42. So I think it's been a bit of a bit of a pattern for me.

I'll tell you another story. Kickboxing. Again, I was physically weak, but a friend of mine just said, hey, why don't we get into this gym and we learn how to fight? And I was afraid, I was afraid I'm going to get my ass kicked, you know? But I said, fine, let's do it. And so you take that first step and then you practice and you get good at something and then things work. And so...

Fred Menachem (19:11)
Please.

Flavius Plesu (19:39)
So I did that for a few years and same sort of pattern. I became the best fighter in my team. I then moved to one of the best teams. It was actually the best kickboxing team in Romania. We had two world champions training in that team and they were my sparring partners, Daniel Kitsa and Benia Begui. So I was at that level. was sparring. I was training with the world champions. So that again, that felt good. And you know what it taught me?

Another sport I did and I'll stop with the sports now. was.

Fred Menachem (20:09)
Yeah, it's okay. No, I love, I love this man. You're passionate

about it and I love it. No, really. I'm going to interrupt you for a moment because no, but, it's not just the sports. It's what's behind him. The, the, the, can feel your passion. So every time you tell these stories, I love hearing them and I've heard some of them before, so please continue.

Flavius Plesu (20:28)
I think there's a bit of a lesson here for me and maybe for others, perhaps a bit of an insight. That's why I love sharing these stories. Bodybuilding. So told you, skinny kid went into the gym, started lifting some weights. I always look for people who are best at that one thing, and I will walk up to them and then ask for advice. And so it happened. One of the teams I was training,

One of my best friends now, Albert, that was lifting weights. looked good, good form, strong guy. Walked over, introduced myself. I think he was smiling at the time, but anyway, he sort of took me under his wing. We became friends, we're training together. The guy became world champion. So in two sports, I trained with the world champions. You what I realized was they're made of the same stuff.

you and I are made of, know, they sweat, they bleed, it hurts. I don't know if I say this, but in a way there's nothing special about them. champions in their sport and still, don't know what, I can't tell you, perhaps, you know, discipline and they then give up and they keep on going. I don't know whether they thought they're going to be world champions in their sports, but yeah, they became world champions and...

I think that that's exceptional. So I got to love. You know, excellent center. I think my team and I were also motivated about what we call world class execution. We want to be the best. We want to be the best of what we do. We want to be the best product for our customers, the best in the world, not an OK product. We don't want to be an OK company that's got some customers and make some money. No, we want to be the best product and we want our execution to be world class. We really want people to look at our thing and wow.

Wow, look at those guys. Those guys are champions. So I took those lessons with me.

Fred Menachem (22:31)
So I love this. A couple things. you, you guide, there's so many points that just came out of this, but I want to go back for a moment because I have been dying to ask this question. First story you tell basketball, you're this weak, skinny kid, or at least you thought that, which is probably going to be a theme throughout this series that we're doing. I believe I understand, but that's how I'm getting to a point though. But, so you're this weak, skinny kid. You felt like, okay,

Flavius Plesu (22:48)
Now I swear it was a few steps.

Fred Menachem (22:57)
You walk on the coach kind of laughs in your face in a sense, right? I mean, the way he laughs at you not not in such a nice way. What? But then you came back and you worked your butt off. You practice relentlessly and you made the team. What? What? How did that feel? And was it the same coach when you were back on the tell me? I want to know how did it feel? Forget the intellectual side of it. How did that make you feel? And what did that? Because I imagine Flavius. You know, there's a lot of things that have happened in your life and a lot of achievements and hard work and failures like all of us.

Flavius Plesu (23:04)
No, no, no, no,

Fred Menachem (23:28)
But that was really the first one where, you know, skinny kid, you walk in and the guy laughs at you. I've been there. So tell me about that.

Flavius Plesu (23:43)
hurt. I cried. would go home and I cry after after practice many, many nights. I remember that. And that was again, you know, just just the country fresh out of communism. I've been I've lived the last 15 years mainly in the UK. People are nice, you know, we that that wasn't what I was getting from from my coach back then. Very direct.

harsh, know, so you wouldn't get my support. was just try harder. That's not good enough. And I don't know why I didn't give up. I just kept going back again and again and again and again. And it was the same coach eventually. And we won national when we have one year and

Man, I was the team captain. was the best on that team. The coach loved me at that point. I never went back to tell him. Do you remember when I came to you first? It was a good feeling, but not easy. was hard, really, really hard. And not just physically, emotionally as well. But I'm glad I did it. Super, super rewarding.

Fred Menachem (25:05)
And you know, I see the calm that comes into you when you talk about it because I mean, what, I mean, you know, on the face of it, if you tell the story, you know, people are like, whatever, but when you put your whole life together, it's, that's a defining moment. And, and you know, and as you talk about, right, I mean, you feel like that's a defining moment in your life. You probably never even thought about, but think about that. That's me.

So yeah, I see you, but look at you really thinking about it.

Flavius Plesu (25:34)
Yes, absolutely.

No, absolutely. Absolutely. was. It was just a sports stuff. And you know what? I played football before basketball. It's just a couple of my best friends were were drafted on the team and I just wanted to keep on playing with them. And it wasn't about basketball. I didn't have a love for the game. At that point. And I didn't even think about it. I didn't rationalize it back then.

that hey, look, you set your mind to something and then you go and you work really hard and it is possible if you do that. But then I did the other things in my life. You know, I left Romania, I moved to the UK. That was a big change. English is not my first language. It was fun and I had to start all over, open a bank account, make friends, get a job.

went back to UNIT with my masters in the UK. But I applied the same formula, same mindset. So it must have been a defining moment. Yeah, I guess so. All things are different.

Fred Menachem (26:46)
I,

you know, you, you, sometimes we, you know, we, we, we, we don't realize things until we start talking about them. Even doing, you know, even having conversations like this. Did you ever feel, look, I grew up, I got a lot of Eastern European DNA in me as well. So I understand what you're talking about. You know, not hearing a lot. I'm proud of you and you know, and just,

Flavius Plesu (27:03)
I

Fred Menachem (27:08)
the expectations and all of that. you know, at least in my upbringing, you know, I recognize it, even though it's a few generations away, it never, never lingers. And then you go to other parts of the world and you're like, what's wrong? My God, they're so nice. And I think that I'm curious about something because, know, you talking about this stuff, like everything is defining for us when we turn it into something positive. And even when it's difficult, do ever say to yourself, you're proud of yourself?

Flavius Plesu (27:34)
No, I don't think I do. no, I know. I know we're doing some something really cool that I'll think and often I hear customers, you know, the success stories. I know it's good, but I don't know. Be proud one day that this bigger thing is doing the world and I'm not quite there yet. No, not yet.

Fred Menachem (27:59)
It's okay. And by the way, I asked you that question because I relate. I actually, since the day you and I have met, I've found a lot of connection. then, you know, when somebody challenges your thought, you know, you always seem to like those people in it. You know, people have bigger impact on you when people challenge you. I understand, I asked that question because I know for me it's the same thing. I asked for a reason as well because you were talking about the...

The three things you talked about kickboxing, you talked about basketball and you talked about bodybuilding. I'm good, right? I got them. All right. So, so, you know, and the guy became a world champion. Number one, when I think I got out of that is that one, you know, you realize that people are people and you know, and I, I, I share the same, you know, I respect everybody equally, you know, to me, everybody's the same, whether you're a president or, or, you know, your, your waste management, we all deserve a respect and we're all people. And I think that that was a lesson. It seemed like that.

Flavius Plesu (28:35)
Thank you.

Fred Menachem (28:57)
You got out of it not being afraid to walk up to anybody, but also you said something about the fact that you said, I don't really know if there's anything so special about these people. I've been trying to figure it out and.

What do you think about yourself? Because we've talked about this by the way. And I ask you like, like you, have this, you have this belief that it's not about people having special necessarily skills or brain power that success comes from. Talk to me about that and how it manifests itself on you, because that's a lesson when you, that world champion guy, you know, becoming a world champion. think that particular, scenario had a big impact on your thought process and the way you think about yourself as well.

Flavius Plesu (29:42)
you

It's really, really interesting how these experiences shape our mind. I of never thought about it before, but it must be so. You know, my chairman currently in the business, pretty exceptional guy, Martin Moran. Again, Martin is here, if you're watching this. Hi. Martin joined Mark Benioff in 1999.

Fred Menachem (30:05)
Shout out to shout out to Martin.

Flavius Plesu (30:11)
1999. so that was, think, the first or second year of that company's life. And we all know what happened to Salesforce now. And it was the first employee outside of the US. I think Salesforce was 30 people back then. And then Martin went on to Skype and sold that to Microsoft. So Martin did some pretty amazing things in his career. So when I speak with him, say Martin doesn't think there's anything special about him.

He's wrong about that, I know. But also sometimes he says to me, I'm brave. And I don't think I am. So perhaps what those early experiences told me is that, look, the best in the world, there's no difference. You can do it. So to some, this might look like courage, but it's not courage. It's a belief I have now. Yeah, you can start on this path.

And you keep going, you keep going and yeah, of course you can build the best product in the world. Yes, you can be the best in the world at anything. So I know it sounds cliche, but I guess that's what I've learned is if there's anything there, I'm not brave by any means. I know that I fear, I feel it, fear, anxiety, not brave.

But I think it can be done and possibly sometimes people find that inspiring. We've been able to attract exceptional talent that I'll see and not because we paid some salaries quite the opposite. I had people take pay cuts. I had people leave big companies like CrowdStrike, really big companies take pay cuts to join this small company here. I think people like that when they see it. They think I'm brave and inspirational.

I'm really not sure about that, but I do believe there's always a way. And if you're going to something, just give it everything you've got and aim high.

Fred Menachem (32:18)
So, you know, a couple of things stood out to me that you were talking about and

As I said earlier, I really relate a lot to you because I think, and I think a lot of people do feel these same feelings, you know, and I think a lot of successful people also think that there nothing that there's nothing special about them. you know, look, you know, those life lessons that you had in your childhood and, your, you know, young and being a young adult really impacted you. And I think, you know, since we've had been having our conversations, you're realizing how much of an impact those things have had on you for, know, for the kind of helped you.

become the person that you are, your parents, you know, these experiences with, with, with sports and all of those things. And I know that, you know, like all of us, you know, your life wasn't so simple in the sense of just knowing what you wanted to do. You know, you grew up with, with phenomenally successful parents under a very difficult system in Romania, know, communist in a communist world, with, you know, although you didn't grow up.

In you know, in poverty, you you grew up with, know, you got everything you needed. You also didn't realize that you didn't have everything that most, you know, westernized or I say westernized. Yeah, well, it's westernized in a sense. Kids had. But, you know, so it wasn't like you had everything just handed to you in a silver platter. So you were trying to find yourself for for quite some time. I know that, you know, when you first went to university, I know that you had dropped out initially. Talk about that. And then there was a lot of different career paths, man. You were looking.

Flavius Plesu (33:32)
Yeah.

Fred Menachem (33:48)
You were, you were, you were, you were looking in a lot of directions. you think you're ADD by the way. I'm curious.

Flavius Plesu (33:57)
I think I've never been diagnosed. Might be. I know you are Fred, know, when we speak. I think we're similar in many ways. I might be.

Fred Menachem (34:04)
Hahaha

Well, we have a mutual friend who connected the two of us and, know, and I think the three of us, right, Darren Argyle, who's a great guy, by the way, who I happen to love. You know, I got to know him last year, right? One of my favorite people in this world, really, like newer people I've met, such a great guy. And I think the three of us probably, you know, on some level, whether we're diagnosed or not. And so sometimes we try to, you know, he had an interesting career trajectory, right? Starting out in the bar business, bar fights and...

Flavius Plesu (34:15)
All right, Darren.

Yeah, likewise.

wow, awesome.

Yeah

Fred Menachem (34:40)
glass bottling, I think he called it or something like that. you know, so so you had a path that trying to, you know, figure out what what the heck you're going to do with your life. So tell us about that starting with when you the first time your first foray into university.

Flavius Plesu (34:56)
Yeah, it's it wasn't a straight line. I knew I loved computers already, maths and physics. getting into uni was very competitive. Both of them state universities. And I managed to get into both and one of them actually had a scholarship in year one. I think I thought I'm smarter than I actually am or perhaps.

I did that I might be able to work harder than most people and I certainly wasn't because.

because I ended up dropping out. I was also still spending a lot of time playing basketball. I shared already I was a good player in college. And I was still spending six, eight hours, probably a day doing that. then also I picked up a book. I remember How to Make Friends and Influence People, Dale Carnegie.

Fred Menachem (35:54)
My I have to interrupt you because I think we talked about this. That was my father always said my dad used to walk around. My dad unfortunately died when he was 50, but he was an amazing person. He used to walk around. He said if there's one book, real New York accent you ever read, this is it. He had his ripped his copy, bent pages. So you picked up that book. All right. So tell me about it. mean, I think that's right. Best book. Yeah.

Flavius Plesu (36:13)
Wise man, you're that, yeah. Absolutely.

So that's what got me really interested in business and entrepreneurship. So I thought, right, how do I figure this one out? And so I got a job in sales. It's not even on my resume. I had lots of interesting jobs and gigs and hobbies. And so my LinkedIn is the curated version, right? So that's not even under. But I took that job.

Fred Menachem (36:32)
Hehehehehe

Right.

Flavius Plesu (36:59)
advertising back then and marketing services and I was just going out to meet these people and sure I'll try to tell them the service there but I was really interested in them and getting to know how they became successful. So I probably got to interview maybe two, three hundred people and what I learned from them was you don't stop. You start doing something and then you don't

So then I got busy.

I think it's not the first company I started. I started BlastCount, how many different things I tried. But around that time, a friend of mine, we thought we can assemble computers and we can sell them and make a profit and then start a company. So did that. Yeah, in Romania. That's just my focus completely. I've never been good at that. I had to learn and sort of discipline helped a lot.

Fred Menachem (37:52)
This was in Romania.

Flavius Plesu (38:03)
wasn't good at focusing. then I ended up dropping out. I couldn't finish my degree. I continued that path of trying various things out and pretty much failing. I remember I was 25 now and I had to move back in with my

I anything I learned and I moved back in and I just told you earlier how my dad was really good at the things he was doing. I think by all measures he was his, he was an exceptional person and so 25 moving back in with him. Yeah, didn't feel good.

Fred Menachem (38:54)
Did you feel so I mean we're talking about right and and by the way, so you know everything you're talking about I relate to the focus and and all of that I mean I can hyper focus like I feel you know could tell you this I've always felt like an imposter my whole life you know people look at me and they don't understand it all the time I get this. You know I feel like I feel it everything and people look at me and they're like you're crazy and I'm like.

So so I get it. Did you feel like a failure at that time? I mean was that hard like how did you did you internalize that like and yeah, I your dad You know you felt that you know level of like living up to his you know to his standards and all that How did that feel man?

Flavius Plesu (39:37)
I was embarrassed. Didn't have much choice. Got fired, had to move back in, didn't have much money. And so, yeah, I remember those days. Now, fortunately, that didn't last long because in Romania back then, Romania had just joined the European Union. And so, the border of the European Union now expanded to include Romania and Bulgaria.

So the country actually invest a lot more in building up a police force, the border force as well. So they were recruiting people to join and become police officers. So that was an escape for me really, because I knew if I did this, my dad had to...

I took the exam, got a job and before I knew it, I was a police officer now and got a bit of training, up joining the factory with a SWAT unit.

Fred Menachem (40:46)
You

saw the way how you saw the movie swat right isn't that what happened come on tell the story don't be embarrassed just kill me let me let me lay the scene out here this is around 2000 right right this is the year 2000 you have at the president was was a young I never go Iani less go right my saying right yeah I mean he had just gotten reelected though because you know I know a few things so you know so Romania you know after the fall of communism he was elected right he comes back.

Flavius Plesu (40:51)
That's my... Yeah, it was...

That's it.

Fred Menachem (41:15)
Romania is like trying to get into where they just joined the EU. They're freaking trying to root out corruption, right? So they're hiring police left and right. I mean, I know, I know some stuff, man. So, so this guy, Flavius Pleshews watching squat and what happened, man? Tell us the trajectory there. Right. Why? That's the best. That's the best part.

Flavius Plesu (41:20)
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

That sounds silly. We could have left that part out Fred. Who watches the movie and then signs up?

Fred Menachem (41:40)
Well, know, lot of people do actually. Yeah, right. Of course. Come on. I used to dress up.

Flavius Plesu (41:42)
Yeah, I don't know.

Fred Menachem (41:44)
I used to watch movies and dress up like the characters my whole life. I'm not even kidding. I dress up like or Broadway plays. I did. So you're not the only one. Yeah. All right. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

Flavius Plesu (41:47)
All right, at least I'm not the only one. That makes two, at least two. All

right, so there you go. I go, I pass the exam, I sign up. I thought, right, I'm going to be a swat down. It's going to be cool. And it was cool. I got to play with guns a bit, and I was really good at target practice, fortunately.

Realized so happy with that But man, I got to see corruption up close and and that was really really really painful, you know, we being on that SWAT team we would move in and we would arrest the serious bad guys like organized crime and and then we would also hold them in custody and sort of escort them and take them to the DA and and unfortunately many times many times

It would just be let's read because there was some some procedures, some some minor technical details somewhere and they get corruption. And then also we would also escort their victims to testify and to court and we get we got to hear their stories. And then I really don't want to get into that because those were some really, really tragic life stories and. And look, I just couldn't take it. I think I did the.

I'm not going to be able to change this much by being a police officer. I need to try to do something else and then come back and maybe try to influence things in a different way. got into politics. it's still, well, now obviously Romania has moved on a lot since. The EU has had a tremendous, huge positive impact on the country.

Still, still there's corruption like, you know, in any country in the world, but it's good now. So I was left to one day go back and actually make an impact. But it was tough. just, couldn't take it anymore. So, so I ended up quitting my job as a police officer. My dad understood. My mom wasn't very happy about that. I was leaving a good job to do what? I didn't really have a plan.

Yeah.

over. no, my mom, my mom wasn't happy. it was good. In the end, was okay.

Fred Menachem (44:31)
So you, you, you, you quit the job. You took a big risk. I mean, kid grows up under communism, Romania, never lived outside of the country.

And you moved to the UK, man. tell us about that.

Flavius Plesu (44:50)
It was the same thing, know, I quit my job as a police officer, moved to Bucharest, still in Romania, still doing my kickboxing, pretty good at that. Ended up doing all sorts of jobs. wasn't proud. I was a bouncer at some point. I think that was one of the lowest. Now, nothing wrong with bouncers, you know, but it's just, I wasn't...

going anywhere. I felt I was just taking not one step back but five steps back and not making any progress. So I remember I met my dad again. Perhaps I don't know. I'll talk to my parents in a bit. But he came to Bucharest to see me. He was wearing his uniform as a general and I was a bouncer. I was mad. It's not going well. A friend of mine

But the interesting thing is he never. He never.

said anything that would make me bad or that would hurt me. He was always supportive and encouraging. It was all just playing in my head, everything. And a friend of mine said, hey, Klopp, want to come to the UK? I wanted to go back and pick up that computer science degree I never finished. And I thought,

There's that and then I went into a master's and I thought cyber might be a good degree. It was sort of gaining a lot of popularity. There's three top universities in the world for cyber. have Stanford and I think Carnegie Mellon in the US and then you have Royal Holloway just outside of London in the UK. So thought man the US is too far. Why don't I go to the UK? I had my friend in the UK so I went over.

continued working as a bouncer to save money to pay for my tuition. 10 pounds an hour, that was the rate back then. And yeah, and then I did my degree and a bit of luck. I got my first job in the UK. I was the head of information security for University of West London. That was a good job. And then Darren found me. Darren.

Fred Menachem (47:19)
Darren Argyle for

folks that aren't listening. Exactly. Cyber Leadership Institute. Give him a little plug.

Flavius Plesu (47:20)
Yeah, they're on our job. Yeah, the guy is awesome.

Shout out. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome guys. So Darren took me under his wing and I just market. We were now responsible for cyber security for 14,000 people globally. I just learned a lot from Darren. Great, great guy. Great mentor. So yeah, really, really grateful. And

Fred Menachem (47:27)
Heh. Heh.

Flavius Plesu (47:48)
And then we really got stuck with this challenge. How do you teach people cyber? How do you make them more cyber resilient? And Darren, myself, bunch of other CSOs and researchers, we sort of got together. We started working on this. And I think that was the genesis of all things.

Fred Menachem (48:07)
Look, this is, uh, all such interesting stuff. You know, I, I personally have to say, I love getting to know you. And I think that, you know, you have a lot to, to offer the world outside of only, you know, what out think does and all of that in general, you know, you're a special person, you're a good person and,

Flavius Plesu (48:24)
Thank you for saying that.

Thanks, Rit. Likewise.

Fred Menachem (48:27)
Truly,

truly. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'll hug you later when I see you in Miami. So, but you know, let me ask you this, and I don't think I've asked you this before, but did you finally, when you started taking cyber and it sounds like, know, you jumped into a good job. Did you feel like, wow, I just found something I know how to do. I'm good at it. I mean, do you even feel that then? Or you still feel like you're a failure? Cause it sounds like from what I understand from outside folks that, know, you did, you know, you were really good at what you were doing.

Flavius Plesu (48:57)
I was good. Darren thought so. He paid me double to join his team. And then I got my next job with the Bank of Ireland. So some people thought I was good, but no, no, no. I felt like an imposter, like a fraud. I've just told you my story. I've done all of these things. Now being responsible for cybersecurity for a large organization. I just market at the time.

Fred Menachem (48:59)
Right, Darren did think so. Right. So...

virtue.

Yeah.

Flavius Plesu (49:28)
was called the plumber of the financial industry. Our customers were all G20 governments, probably 98 % of the largest banks in the world, the largest financial service financial institutions in the world. And they all relied on us having good cyber data security because we were part of their supply chain. And yeah, there was a lot at stake and I did feel like a fraud.

and I, I, I, so I still have the feeling. No, I don't. it's quite nice to say that finally, I got good at this and, and then my passion for, you know, just, just addressing the people element, cybersecurity, what we now call human risk management. I did the same as, you know, I did with my sports. I went out to find the best people out there.

So I met Professor Angela Sasse. There was this briefing she held at the Bank of England. And so I met her and I thought, wow, she sounds great. Angela has been advising UK government and she's been doing research in this space for over 30 years. So I went to Angela, introduced myself. She joined Outing, she's now a scientific advisor. People like Darren, Dr. Paul Drake, who served the CISO in Whitbread and Glasgow-SmithKline, really big company.

He did his PhD in the social aspects of cybersecurity. So I learned a great deal from these people and I just continued reading and continued finding experts in the space. I think I'm not bad at this now. So yeah, feels good. Finally, took a while.

Fred Menachem (51:12)
So

yeah, look, wow, just yelled in the mic, you got me excited. So we're gonna get to that in the next episode, but I do wanna kind of move into transformation and personal struggles because every time I talk to you, I feel like I'm talking to myself and I say that because I think that probably, I could say I'm pretty confident. have a lot of imposter syndrome like you and.

My self-esteem and you know, all the same crap we all struggle with. And that's my point. think because I am very open about my flaws and issues, I have the, the, I'm honored that a lot of people will share theirs with me. And most people have the same feeling. Most people watching this right now are going to be like, wow, in their minds, I'll tell you something. I I've been in situations where

And I'm getting into this. This is leading somewhere. But where people have said to me, Fred, you know, maybe you shouldn't share so much, you know, all this vulnerable stuff because people might think it's weakness and this and that. And, you know, I am who I am. And six months later, you know, usually happens is they start sharing theirs. And the reason is, is that we think because we live in this fantasy of a world where we have to always show, right, this the world does this to us, like our best side and this and that.

Flavius Plesu (52:29)
Okay.

Fred Menachem (52:40)
But we do a disservice to the world by doing that because everybody has their struggles. Everybody has their stories and it's a gift. Not only is it a gift for us to be able to tell them, but it's a bigger gift for the people that are listening to them because it gives them the ability to tell them. It makes us better leaders, right? It makes us better CEOs. It makes us better at everything we do because being real is a, is, is a gift. So on that note, and I truly believe that, and I say that, you know, this is not about me. know, but, but,

Flavius Plesu (53:06)
Yeah.

Fred Menachem (53:09)
This interview is about you flabbies, but still, you know, this is a conversation and interview. And I, I think it's so important because I was going to say that I, and I've told you this and I have no problem sharing. I've had my struggles throughout my life with mental health, with different things. I've had my ups and downs and I fought wars and I have felt, you know, the same way about myself as, know, things you and I are talking about. And I remember something that when I

You know, started to come more and more open about my struggles. As I got older and decided that I don't care, you know, I'm going to be, I'm going to be a vessel, whatever you want to be. It's seriously for other people. I'm going to be honest about it because I don't care what anybody else tells me that gift I'm giving the ability for people to be able to talk about their struggles to me is like, that's why I live. You you talk about one to help the world and all the things that you deeply believe in. That's where my contribution comes. And so I know that when I used to first,

Flavius Plesu (53:58)
Yeah.

Fred Menachem (54:04)
tell people and they didn't understand it, they would kind of dismiss it in a sense, why don't I do this or do that? They didn't understand it. Sometimes it would hurt my feelings, but I watched them change. And I'm saying this to you for a reason. There's a point here because I know that like all of us and you know, it's all you've gone, you went through a situation yourself, but prior to that, you didn't understand it, right? Looking at other people, so kind of similar. So tell me about how it, what the way you felt before you realized that

Hey, I'm going through something and then what you went through and then how that all changed. It's a lot. just gave threat you, huh?

Flavius Plesu (54:43)
Good and then I'm actually happy of sharing this. You're right. We have a lot in common. So you and I will talk more after the show.

High expectations, guess. Then imposter syndrome. You work these really long hours, a lot of caffeine, very little sleep, a lot of anxiety. I didn't know what was happening. It's just at some point I found myself by a serious difficulty breathing. And I had to look for help.

felt it was heavy here in my chest. Couldn't breathe, started taking medication, dad wasn't helping, ended up seeing a psychiatrist. My wife actually encouraged me to do that. Very, very grateful to her. She's really been there for me. Anyway, she encouraged me to do that. Wasn't sure that's good idea.

had really low expectations, that's fine, I'll do it for you. And it did help. It did help me realize what's happening. It did help me sort of express what I was feeling and I went on this journey and I've learned a great deal and...

And there was a bit of guilt with those feelings. was a bit of... I didn't understand what it was, why am I feeling this way? What's feeling guilty? I should be stronger. What is this? This is not right. But then I learned about our hardwiring, what the mind does, all these hormones that regulate...

our feelings, our mood. And I started optimizing and I guess it's been probably eight years now. I've been sort of, I've been in pursuit, this relentless pursuit of just energy. You need a great, great amount of energy to be able to build a company and run a startup. It's by far the hardest thing I've ever done. And even out there has not been a smooth ride. So.

I've learned a thing or two. I've made lots of changes in my life. I stopped drinking. I now exercise regularly. I meditate. I do yoga. I used to think, is silly. Who does that? Not a real man, you know? Eastern European real man. Who does that? And so now I do. Left gluten out of the diet. Left sugar out of the diet. I sleep.

Fred Menachem (57:33)
He he he he

Flavius Plesu (57:45)
I track my sleep score now. got a 92 last night. Feeling good. High energy, you know? I'll see, get mad in a startup. 92 is pretty good. That's right. That's right. That's right. So, so yeah, it didn't come easy. I had to work for it. I'm grateful for the journey and I'm grateful for the challenges. I do believe

Fred Menachem (57:49)
Very few you fail, you fail by the way, 92 out of 100, that's not good enough for you Flavius, right? Right, you got work to do, Right, exactly, it's pretty good actually, exactly. Just joking.

Flavius Plesu (58:15)
Adversity is a gift. You know, we go through life trying to avoid hardship. No one wants that. But it teaches you things and equally success is not a good teacher. It just makes you proud and arrogant. yeah, all things been been serious, seriously challenging, especially building a leadership team. thought building category, software category is going to be hard. It wasn't. I thought building the product software is going to be hard.

It wasn't thanks to you, Matt, my CTO. Thanks a lot. But then building a leadership team, that was the hardest thing about it. And I failed. I failed a couple of times and there was a lot of blood everywhere and a lot of pain. I felt it.

Fred Menachem (59:01)
You know,

and the fact is, and you know, I say this from the heart, you know, this comes from a guy who's the guy being Flavius Plessu, who is the ultimate competitor, pursues excellence all the time. And, you know, I say to everybody out there, everybody listening, watching, take notes. This is a marathon, not a sprint, right? Longevity only happens when you prioritize yourself. So you can put your best out there consistently. And I think

Flavius Plesu (59:23)
Yeah.

Fred Menachem (59:31)
That's exactly what the message here is. mean, you know, you changed and am I right that prior to going through this, because at the beginning you thought maybe it was a medical issue. You weren't even, you weren't even evolved enough to recognize that it was right. And like you, and you looked at others who had these issues and said, what'd used to say? Get it together, right? What'd you say in your head or even how to get it right? Get it together. Like what's wrong with them?

Flavius Plesu (59:54)
yeah.

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I did. Absolutely. I didn't think it was real. I thought it was just people looking for an easy way out or for sympathy. don't know. And I was very dismissive about the whole thing, know, mental health and burnout. Come on, doesn't happen to you. You you're strong. just keep going. Just keep moving forward.

Fred Menachem (1:00:01)
You thought it

Flavius Plesu (1:00:24)
fine, you break through obstacles, barriers, doesn't matter. But actually, I got to the end of last year. as a company, we all work incredibly hard. I shared earlier that our goal is world-class execution, and we want to build the best product in this space for our customers. It's in our DNA. And so I've assembled these people of just exceptional, utterly exceptional individuals.

And sometimes it's hard for me to keep up with them. And so Q4 last year was a massive effort. We ran this internal project we called Boost Across R &D, Across GTM. We boosted for three solid months, very little sleep, just hardcore, you 2 a.m., 5 a.m. on a weekend, not on a weekday. And some of these people on my team are tough and are resilient. I'll share stories about them next time,

And so I was struggling to keep up. We made it through, we delivered, got to the end of the year. I effectively, I just collapsed. I did my blood test, chronically elevated levels of cortisol, seriously impacted the immune system, low alpha one, globulin, and all of those other markers. And for two weeks, I did nothing. just, I disconnected and...

Fred Menachem (1:01:34)
No.

Flavius Plesu (1:01:50)
I just rested and had tea and meditated and did yoga and went to the gym and climbing. so, yeah, and I came back from it. think, not sure whether stronger, but certainly wiser. And now I'm prioritizing these things actively because you know what Fred, it's a false economy. You think you're going fast and you work these crazy hours, but then it's...

impacts your judgment, your decision making. And you don't say the best thing and you don't make the best decision. And then you need 30 people, need 100 people to jump in and fix what you've broken. And then it takes them weeks and months. And so I do believe now it's a false economy. Of course, the harder I work, the luckier I get. Great. It is a startup, so we all continue to work hard. But

It's not impossible to find time to find 20 minutes a day to meditate. It's not impossible to to go to bed early and get some sleep or to work out. So now it's part of our culture. Many people talk of work life balance and that that doesn't sit well with me. Work life balance. What is that? You know, and I don't like it because it sort of implies there's there's two opposing forces and and it's either work or life.

and for life to begin, work must cease. And so perhaps you think you get to work during the day and you live a little in the evening or perhaps over the weekend or on that short holiday, but how can you be happy with that? So instead of work-life balance, but I think now we believe in work-life integration. It's all one life you get and we make life choices. And sometimes I choose to stop.

and go meditate for 20 minutes. And sometimes I choose to continue working, you know, but just be careful with those work-life integration choices.

Fred Menachem (1:03:55)
You know, I'll tell you something. What I see, by the way, and it's funny, right? How we see like I know that you look at me, you feel like we've got to know each other. We have no judge that long. But but I know I could see how you look at me and and and and I see admiration sometimes out of you the same way I look at you and and I look at myself like, does anybody think this about me? Like, true. I'm truly there. I'm like, and I'm getting to a point here. But, you know, I've learned with my own mental health stuff and I fought wars.

And sometimes, you know, it can be, you know, it can be difficult and I've learned something that I can change the world in three days, but I have to be goal oriented because there might be a week when I just need to, to, just need for whatever, you know, all this stuff that I deal with to just, just be asleep or whatever it is, but I can change the world. So I know I got my goals always and I could work five in the morning all night and get them done. And, and, and so what I'm saying is that I also know and recognize.

what works for me, but that's where I beat myself up. Now, what I wanted to say to you is I kind of went off on a tangent by the way, just now, but is that I see you as phenomenally successful guy. And when I say that, I say it because I've gotten to know you. I've learned a lot about outthink, about the company, about you. You know, I really just care deeply about people and their projects. And when I like them, I want to know you are.

And I imagine if I would have met you, you know, 20 years ago, it would have been different. You have tremendous self-awareness. Which also, I mean, would let me stop there. You think that would be a correct statement?

Flavius Plesu (1:05:35)
Yeah, I've been told that before, you know, the self awareness piece there. Yeah, I guess I have that. And it helps, you know, we, but I think we have four values. We put the customer first, always that's a given, it's in our DNA. But then right after that comes bias for action, innovation, and then growth mindset. And you need self awareness for that growth mindset and humility, Fred, as well.

And know adversity makes you humble. It breaks you and makes you humble. I think Mike Tyson said something along the lines of, if you're not a humble person, life will visit humility upon you. And I've received plenty of that gift, you know. So yeah, I think maybe that's where self-awareness comes from.

Fred Menachem (1:06:28)
And I'm gonna talk about a couple more things and let's, and we wanna wrap up this episode, but, because there's so much here. mean, I literally, feel like we could have therapy session right now, you and me. I mean, and I say that, yes, we're talking about business and now think that the truth is life. You you made a comment about work-life balance. What does that mean? Because this is all life. Talking about this.

Flavius Plesu (1:06:42)
Okay.

Fred Menachem (1:06:53)
When we are able to talk about this, this impacts, we work with people. This is life. You're not, like you said, you're not stopping and ending. You have relationships with the people you work with, you know, they have lives, you know, this all enter the way that we, you know, take care of ourselves is the way we treat others. And so, so I want to, couple of things I wanted to end on, and then, you know, we, we, we're, we're going to end this episode, but as far as empathy, I imagine how does, how does that, I mean, I know you have a,

You have a team that you know pretty well, right? Small team. met some of them and I imagine that you guys all know, right? You know about their lives and this is not just going to work and your empathy has, I imagine your empathy has increased significantly since you've gone through these things. I know you have empathy, you always have, but I imagine that this has really been an impacting factor for you. Self-awareness, empathy and all of that.

Flavius Plesu (1:07:31)
yeah.

Hmm. Hmm. I guess it naturally happens. I don't want to use big words, but in a way you fall in love with the people you work with. You share the same goal and there's tremendous sacrifice and, you know, really, really pushing together through things. And I don't think you can stop that. think I'm an actually curious person and

And I do want to know my people. do want to know everything about them. What makes them tick the families, what they're going through. I care about them personally. And, know, it's hard sometimes for perhaps people on my team to see that because you're always balancing, you know, it is hyper growth. It is a startup. have goals.

Fred Menachem (1:08:45)
So, you know, what a great answer. I mean, I learned so much from you. And I think what you're really saying, Flavius is that, you know, true bonds are forged in the trenches, right? You're like our early teams are your early team. You know, they don't just build the company, right? They bleed, they sweat, they fight alongside you and creating a shared legacy that

Flavius Plesu (1:08:57)
Absolutely.

Fred Menachem (1:09:07)
shapes everything. And you know, I've been there in that situation. So I know how that feels. Those people become like that's war, right? And those are, those are your people, man. That's why Darren speaks so highly of you and introduced us as a perfect example. And we, we, those people are always in our lives generally. And that's, and that's a beautiful thing. So we have spoken about so many freaking things, man. I think that this has been such an amazing

Amazing episode. I've done a lot of these over years and I speak to a lot of people, but I mean, your story is, you don't think it's amazing, but it's amazing because it's real and because it's raw and because it's honest. And that, you know, you know, that's, that's amazing. Look at you sigh. And I'll tell you one thing I told you earlier and I started to say it and I didn't finish my thought. What I see, is a guy that's

become even more self aware. A guy that is phenomenally talented. I'm sorry. I mean, embarrass you. You know, I got the time to learn about the product because, I spent a lot of time with your team and go through it and learning not only because I don't look, I'm skeptical at first, to be frank. I don't believe what anybody tells me initially. Oh, our product is great. This and that. But you know, any of it, I mean, we we we learned so much about him. We're like, oh my God, this guy's like this guy's pretty damn smart. And and you have an amazing product.

You have integrity, you're self-aware, you have amazing clients and you've won all kinds of accolades and we'll talk about that later, but take that away.

You're, you're, you're kind and you care and you're, you're doing amazing work. And let me tell you something. Business is great and all of that. And yes, we all want to be successful. helps a lot of people, employees and all of that. And it's important. And cyber is important. of course. And you know, saving the world is as well. And you know, you get my point, but, but you are a guy that I admire tremendously. And, and I hope that more and more people get to know you, you know, from these, from the series that we're doing. And on that note, what I wanted to kind of end this with is,

You know, you talked about having a baby on the way, which I'm very excited about as a boy and it's a March baby, which I hope it's an Aries like me. I just want to say that you can name it after me. You know, my great grandmother, the Russian was Florence. That's why I named Fred, but yeah, was so flawed Florence, you know, so I'd be okay with that, but more important, right? You'll think about it, right? Middle name maybe. Right. Exactly. But yeah, exactly. But there was something that that has been a theme through our conversations since we've met in and just

Flavius Plesu (1:11:12)
Yeah.

you

Alright.

I'll consider that, I'll think about it. Maybe an initial there.

Fred Menachem (1:11:37)
in our chats is that, and by the way, I relate to this and there's actually a woman in my life. wish she would come back and save me. I'm kidding. All joking aside, but somebody in your life that helps ground you, nobody is responsible for behavior. Nobody, right? Can you, we responsible for actions, but there's something like we need grounding. know for me, I don't want to speak for you, but when we have people in our lives that help ground us, it makes us better. It makes us more aware. It makes us better fathers, parents, kids, leaders, husbands, wives, and

Just tell me I think this is a great point to end. You know, the first one, where did you meet your wife? How long ago? Where'd you meet her?

Flavius Plesu (1:12:15)
Wow. It was actually 20 years ago. I must have been 21, my early 20s. Out of all places in the gym, not that romantic. But we've been married now for I think 13, 14 years. I should know. But she's an exceptional person.

Fred Menachem (1:12:34)
Haha, you bet right she's over there listening,

Flavius Plesu (1:12:43)
a lot better than I am in every single way. She gives me courage and that solid foundation we so desperately need in our lives. I think that's what she gives me. big words again, perhaps. I seriously doubt I would have been able to do this without her. So, yeah.

another special person in my life. I am a lucky person. I do feel lucky and I say this a lot. I am a lucky person. I just hope it doesn't run out. I'll my fingers crossed.

Fred Menachem (1:13:24)
She's an amazing person. What's her first name? Am going to get in trouble for asking this question? Amelia, you know why? So Amelia, I I have a great memory. I'm a rain man. I always say half Spanish, half Romanian. Am I right? Yes. You see, I listen. People don't think I'm listening because I'm talking all the time. But that is I hope to meet her one day, by the way. I really actually do. And then when I see you talk about her with everything we've done today and I know this because

Flavius Plesu (1:13:28)
Emilia, no, it's alright, Emilia.

That's right. That's right. That's right.

Thank

Fred Menachem (1:13:51)
There's somebody in my life who I swear she needs to come over here, but that's another story. You'll have to help me there. But that can change your entire trajectory. And I see, you you're, you know, you went through a difficult time and she was there for you and she helped you walk through it. And I know that you've been there for her in other ways. And that's when we evolve together. And I'll end on this note and as human beings, right. And you know, whether it's a work, no relationship is perfect, but it's all about involvement, right. And that's, I imagine the relationship you have with your wife and, and, and

Flavius Plesu (1:14:00)
All right.

Fred Menachem (1:14:21)
I guess to end there.

Do you feel like, well, we've probably evolved throughout this interview, but you feel like looking, we went through a real walk down memory lane here. Do you feel like there's been a lot of involvement here in your life from now and today? And you probably thought about it more now and has that, you know, has that impacted you and what would you leave the audience with until we roll to the next episode?

Flavius Plesu (1:14:50)
yeah, absolutely. as a kid, I had no idea what I'm going to do growing up. I would not have been able to predict or envision this is what I'm going to be like, what my life's going to be like when I'm in my early forties, but here I am now. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of growth. there's a serious point in there about luck. You know, Napoleon used to order his troops.

to go to war, be brave and fight hard and be lucky. You used to order them to be lucky. And I'm a lucky person. My chairman says the harder you work, the luckier you get. There's something in there. The effort you put in, the adversity you encounter along the way, they teach you things. They make you a better person. Eventually you get lucky. So yeah, I'm a lucky person. I've grown a lot.

And it's going to be interesting to see what happens from here in the next 10, 20, 30 years.

Fred Menachem (1:15:57)
Wow. What a great, great episode. And this is just the beginning of an amazing series. I'm so honored to be hosting this, you know, Flavius, your journey and transformation. Really talking about that today has set the stage from what's to come and.

It's so amazing. You know, I've learned so much from, you know, folks that have worked with you and all of that and about the work that you're doing. and I know, and not just from you, from all the employees I've gotten to know that, you know, you all have a bold vision to secure digital life everywhere and truly believe that you're going to be able to do that. And you're already on the way. And in part two, we're going to dive into how you turn that vision into reality and you continue to, to, to do that.

and how you're building out thinking to a world-class solution to one of the world's most pressing challenges. So thank you so much for having me and thanks for being willing, for the willingness to be open and real. It's been great, man.

Flavius Plesu (1:16:53)
I really, really enjoyed it, Fred. Thank you very much for putting up with me and thank you for all those wonderful questions. help and absolute pleasure.

Fred Menachem (1:17:02)
See you soon, folks.